A：Yeah, sure. Hi, everyone. This is JJ from Way Insight UK. I came to UK for my Master in 2011. I've worked in UK, Germany, Japan in the past 10 years. And I joined the IP industry as a business development manager. And then I started our own company in the UK for this IP firm.We are founded by a group of IP attorneys in China, and we focus on cross border clients, meaning bringing the Chinese clients’ IP abroad. And I also help international clients including business, corporates and IP firms and help them to secure their IP in China. So that's what we do.

当然！大家好，我是来自中微知著英国分公司的滕佳佳。在2011年为了就读研究生来到英国。过去十年我曾在英国、德国和日本工作。现在我作为海外业务拓展负责人加入了一家知识产权公司，并为这家知识产权公司在英国创办了分公司。中微知著由一群中国的知识产权律师创立，在业务方面我们专注于涉外知识产权业务，致力于为中国知识产权出海保驾护航。同时也会帮助包括企业主、终端直客和其他知识产权公司在内的国际客户在中国保护他们的知识产权，这些就是我们目前正在做的。

A：Yeah, so over, obviously, there are the “cliche reasons” like China is the second largest economy, and we just have a lot of activities with large firms as well as small firms. So at the same time, we serve a lot of small to medium size startups as well as IP firms. I will use a few examples to explain why.

嗯，我可以告诉你一些常见的理由，比如中国是当前的第二大经济体，公司不管规模大小都会在中国有很多经济活动。所以除了传统知识产权事务所，我们的很多客户是中小型初创公司。我举几个例子来解答你的问题。

For example, a very small company. They actually manufacture their goods in China. As they were exporting, they had Customs issues because clearly someone else is using this trademark in China. Now we enter a dispute of whether it's okay to import it? Is it counterfeits, etc. That's one clear example. And also like if you are lucky enough and your business is expanding to China, you will find that in China, a lot of trademarks are registered already for good reasons, or we also know there're “bad-faith” registration and to override that is a very difficult process.

比如一个很小的公司，他们在中国进行商品生产，但当他们商品出口时却会遇到一些海关问题，因为已经有其他人正在中国使用这个商标，这里可能会产生“这些商品是不是假货”之类的争议，这就是一个非常清晰的案例。如果你非常幸运地业务拓展至中国，你会发现很多商标已经被注册了。这些注册有些是合理的，但我们也知道存在恶意注册的问题，要推翻一个已经被注册的商标的手续是很难的。

So we always encourage the clients or the clients’ attorneys to think about brand protection, because to be honest to compare with, you know, EU, the trademark, application fees with the Chinese one, the cost is very different. We think that in China, it's definitely a country you can think early, budget permits, to protect your brand in China beforehand and that will save you a lot of trouble and hassle and documents processing afterwards in China.

所以我们总是鼓励客户和客户的代理人考虑品牌保护，因为老实说相比于欧盟的商标费用，在中国的费用则大不相同。基于此，我们认为中国绝对是客户应该早日考虑的国家，在预算允许的情况下，提前在中国保护品牌将为客户之后在中国的相关事务省去很多问题与麻烦。

A：Yeah. For example, in China, I think one class one Mark , the official fee will be $45. For EU, it's 850 euro. That's quite different, a (big) gap, I think.

是的，在中国的话，一个商标一个类别的官费约45美元，而对于欧盟商标，这个数字变为了850欧元，这很不一样，二者之间存在巨大的价格差别。

Q：Okay. And when should clients be thinking about this? If they have got or if they're registering in, say they're registering in UK and EU or in the states as well, When and at what point does it make sense to include China into that mix? Or is if you do it at all at the same time? And what would you recommend?

我明白了，那么你认为什么时候客户应该去考虑这些呢？如果他们已注册或正在注册，比如说他们正在进行英国、欧盟或美国的商标注册，什么时候，或者说什么时间点选择将中国纳入其中是有意义的？或选择一切都同时进行？你会给大家什么样的建议呢？

A：It's definitely possible to do it at all times. Or there's something called Paris convention, which allows you if you are registering in the UK it gives you 6 months to enter China. And then you can keep your UK registration date, which is actually what we call priority date. If we're talking to IP attorneys we’ll certainly encourage them to think about the IP portfolio internationally, especially in the countries where you are certainly going to have either footprint or future markets like consumers.

任何时候去考虑在中国进行品牌保护都是可能的。如果你在英国注册了，巴黎公约会给你6个月时间进入中国，并保留英国注册日期，这实际上就是我们说的优先权日期。如果我们与知识产权律师交谈，肯定会建议他们考虑国际知识产权组合，特别是在那些您肯定会拥有足迹（供应链）或未来市场（如潜在消费者）的国家或地区。

So that's what we do. And with the startup, I know that like both of us we consider our budgets, then we will say ok you do need to have a priority, but if you can keep a certain pace of doing everything within 6 months, if you are sure that this is going to be your logo and this is the trademark you're trading under. Then we encourage you to do in that half-year period. That would be my advice.

这就是我们所做的事情。对于像咱俩一样的初创公司，都得去考虑预算。我们也认为在预算有限的情况下排优先级的做法是非常正确的。如果客户已经确定了自己的商标设计以及未来的使用情况，在这半年时期内按照自己的步调完成全球布局是很好的。这就是我给出的建议。

A：It's actually quite straightforward. So for some countries, if you are doing a legal process like this, you need legalization, notarization. But the Chinese trademark office actually simplified the process. So at the moment, what we need the client to decide is really the trademark, your logo, your design, because it's going to be difficult to change in the future.

流程可能比想象中的要简单一些。对一些国家来说，一些法律文件需要合法化并且公证。但中国商标局实际上简化了这个过程。所以目前我们需要客户首要决定的是相应商标、徽标、设计，因为这些部分将来会很难改变。

And then think about the goods and services you're going to trade under this trademark, and you can expand to future plans as well. So try to get everything in one go. And that's what basically what the clients need to do. And then it's a few documents like proof of your identity or incorporation certificate and a power of attorney. So for us, it's quite upfront， it is a simple process. Then it takes about, I think, on average, 9 to 12 months to get the actual certificate, given that no one submits any objections to your trademark based on different grounds, like either mostly similarity, based on prior marks.

然后可以斟酌一下，这个商标下有哪些商品和服务；可以把考虑扩展到企业未来计划中。要试着一口气把所有东西搞定。这部分基本上就是客户需要做的。然后需要一些文件，例如身份证明或公司注册证书、委托书。对我们来说还是挺直截了当的，程序方面整体比较简洁。在公布期，如果没有第三方基于一些诸如“近似”的理由对商标提出异议的话，整体大概会花费平均需要 9 到 12 个月来获得商标证书。

I think it's fairly straightforward. Compared with US you need to prepare your evidence of usage or you need …, just et cetera. So, from a comparative perspective, Chinese trademarks are fairly simple. I would say the most difficult is the actual approval rate in China. So we would strongly suggest you do a kind of search beforehand and also check with some local attorneys. Like if your language means something different, we have a very strict like a social moral impact element in our assessment. One example, you may find interesting is the, I don't know if it's a game producer, Kojima Productions , they have like a skeleton/skull looking and that trademark was never approved. It doesn't matter where else you've got that approved. But in China, if you see a skull in your logo, then they won't go.

我认为这个流程还是比较明晰的。尤其是和美国相比，美国需要去准备使用证据，或者其他的一些文件。从比较角度来看，中国商标注册相当简单。我想说，最困难的实际上是中国的实际授权率，我们会强烈建议您事先进行检索，并咨询一些当地律师，因为语言中有些内容会意味着不同东西，中国商标在评估程序中存在非常严格的“公序良俗”影响因素。一个你可能会觉得有趣的例子是，小岛秀夫工作室，他们的商标看起来像骷髅/骷髅头，在世界上很多国家虽然都注册下来了，可是该商标始终无法在中国获得批准。在中国，如果审批人员在你的商标上看到一个骷髅头，那他们就不会给你批准。

例子中的小岛秀夫工作室商标，截图来自工作室官网

A：Yeah, I think the tolerance level in different countries are different and we have to respect what's written in front of us. We have client who wants to register it was a tattoo company that wants register a trademark with a I don't know the guy was hoped, but I can't remember what is it called like the person that representing deaths, holding, like a knife or h…?

是的，我认为不同国家有不同容忍度，但我们也必须尊重规定好的条例。我们有一家纹身公司的客户想注册一个图形商标，那个图形——我忘了英文怎么说了——代表死亡，拿着像刀子或是……？

A：The Grim Reaper. So we had a client who's interested in registering that. I said it's impossible to go. They still want to try…Fine. So it was rejected in the end, but we just need to respect some of the local rules as well.

是的，死神。我们的客户对这个形象感兴趣，想进行注册，我说这行不通，但他们依然想要尝试……最终还是被拒绝了，毕竟我们需要尊重一些当地的规则。